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2011.08.13 23:15

NCAA의 의미.....

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미국이나 캐나다에서 NCAA가 갖는 의미는 상당히 많습니다.  NCAA는 말 그대로 대학교 리그이며 이 안에 무수히도 많은 종목들이 있습니다.  기본적으로 NCAA는 디비젼 1, 2와 3으로 나뉘게 되는데 그 차이는 학교 규모도 있을 것이고 또 규모에 상관없이 잘하는 운동과 전통도 있을 것이고 그와 관련되서 장학금을 1년에 어느종목에 몇개를 주는가에 따라 다를 수 있을 것입니다.  그리고 아래 글에도 나와 있듯 타이틀 9, 즉 NCAA 장학금에 대한 성비를 맞춰야 하는 규정 때문에 많은 디비젼 1 학교들이 곤혹을 치루고 있습니다.  일례로 인기종목인 미식축구 농구 야구에서 남자 선수들에게 주는 장학금이 많기 때문에 이를 맞추기 위해서 남자 축구 같은 종목을 없애야 하는 경우도 발생을 했고 또 이를 맞추기 위해서 치어리딩에 장학금을 주는 학교들도 많습니다.  

뭐 농구는 남자 여자가 동일하고 야구는 소프트볼로 메꾼다지만 미식축구의 저력은 여러 남자 팀들을 고사 시키는 저력을 과시하는데 이유는 간단합니다.  미식축구는 방송을 몇번 탈 경우 학교가 받는 광고비 등등이 장난 아니고 또 거기서 받는 돈으로 선수들 장학금과 코치진 급여는 물론 좋은 교수들까지도 모셔올 수 있는 기회가 생기기 때문에 미식축구와 농구는 항상 특별 대우를 받습니다.  그 특별 대우 중에는 선수들의 성적이 미달에 관한 것인데 선수들은 학점이 미달되면 경기에 출전 할 수 없고 그런 규정들 때문에 미식축구와 농구 선수들은 학교에서 과외 지원 등 끊임없는 지원을 받습니다.  하지만 이런 지원은 비인기 종목에서는 꿈도 꿀 수 없습니다.  하키 역시 비인기 종목에 들어가기 때문에 하키 선수들은 공부를 스스로 해결해야 합니다.

하키의 경우 디비젼 2가 있다가 없어졌고 디비젼 1과 3만 있습니다.  디비젼 1은 말 그대로 장학금을 받고 갈 수 있는 학교들인데 그렇다고 전부 전액 장학생이 될 수 없고 그나마 부분적인 지원을 받는 학생들도 많습니다.  여기에서 예외인 경우가 아이비 리그인데 아이비 리그는 아예 스포츠 장학금이란 제도 자체가 없지만 Financial Aid, 즉 학자금 지원 형태의 장학금이 있긴 있습니다.  그러나 이 마저도 부모의 소득에 따라 정해지므로 100% 학비 지원은 거의 힘들다고 봐야 합니다.  그리고 하키 선수들의 비애는 좋은 학교일수록 공부가 기본이 되어야 한다는 조건입니다.

하키를 아무리 잘해도 벤치에서의 행동이 나쁘거나 성적이 나쁘다면 정말 대학 진학이 힘듭니다.  그 이유는 성적이 나쁘면 벤치 신세나 아예 무장도 못입을 것이고 그런경우 팀 전력 손실은 보나마나 하기 때문이죠.  대학에서 선수를 선발하면 그 선수는 뛸 수 있어야 합니다.  그래서 학업이 좀 쳐진 선수들은 학교 레벨을 낮춰서 가기도 합니다.  그리고 팀 차원에서 팀의 평균 학업 수준을 높이기 위해서 하키가 좀 안되더라도 성적이 우수한 선수를 일단 선발하는 경우도 있습니다.  보스튼 컬레지의 경우 팀의 평균을 높이기 위해 SAT 2400점 만점에 2300점을 받은 골리를 선발했지만 1년 뒤 그 선수는 단 한번도 뛰지 못했기 때문에 골리가 필요한 다른 학교로 전학을 가서 지금 잘 뛰고 있다는 후문입니다.

그리고 디비젼 1과 3의 또다른 차이는 프로와 준 프로의 차이입니다.  디비젼 1은 말그대로 프로를 지망하는 선수들이 많기도 하지만 프로와 같이 모든 생활 자체가 하키를 중심으로 돌아갑니다.  그리고 학교에서도 그 선수의 일거수 일투족을 관리한다고 하더군요.  작년 이맘때에 미국의 명문 다트머스 대학을 방문했을 때 피츠버그에서 현역으로 뛰고 있는 Lovejoy라는 선수를 만나서 여러 얘기를 할 기회가 있었습니다.  그 선수는 미국의 명문 보딩 디어필드를 나와 보스튼 컬레지에 만 18세에 갔지만 대학 하키 자체가 심리적으로 너무 힘들어서 고향인 뉴햄프셔 하노버에 있는 다트머스 대학으로 전학을 와서 NHL로 입성을 했다고 하더군요.  18세의 나이로 라커룸에서 일어나는 일들에 대해서 적응 하는 것에 너무 힘들었다고 말하면서 그래서 1~2년 꿇더라도 좀 늦게 가는게 나을거라는 조언도 해주었습니다.  

실제로 대학 코치들은 신입으로 들어올 때 만 20세를 원하는 코치들이 많고 공공연하게 20세 아니면 안받겠다고 하는 코치들도 있습니다.

이런면에서 디비젼 3은 조금더 학교 중심으로 돌아갑니다.  일단 학생이기 때문에 학업에 충실하고 그 담에 운동을 하라는 뜻이지요.  그리고 중부는 좀 다르지만 동부의 경우 디비젼 3에 학업적으로 상당히 좋은 학교들이 많지만 일단 학자금 지원은 하되 장학금은 일절 없습니다.  그리고 지원 자체도 부모의 경제적 상황에 따라 다르기 때문에 장학금 생각하고 입학원서 넣는 선수들은 좀 실망을 많이 합니다.  하지만 NESCAC과 같은 리그에는 한국에서도 알아주는 명문들이 수두룩합니다.  문제는 입학의 전제 조건이 학업이라는데 있습니다.  Amherst, Williams, Middlbury, Wesleyan, Tufts, Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Trinity 등등 모든 학교들은 학업이 우선시 되어야 합니다.  

아래 글에서 나왔던 아이비 리그 제외한 학교들은 말 그대로 하키를 잘하긴 하지만 Colgate를 제외하고는 학업은 좀....

어쨌든, 미국에서 NCAA에서 어느 운동을 했던 간에 많은 사람들의 존경의 대상이 되는 것은 참 신기 합니다.  운동도 하고 공부도 했다는 것을 의미해서 그런지 NCAA운동을 했다고 하면 어떤 종목이든 사람들은 좀 다르게 대우해 줍니다.  그리고 운동을 하는 그 자체가 입학에 도움이 될 때도 많습니다.  그리고 디비젼 1에서 뛴 경우는 프로급 대우를 해주는 경우가 많습니다. 미식축구나 농구 야구 등등 몇몇 선수들을 제외하고 대학을 안간 선수는 없으니까요.  하키도 요새는 NHL에서 NCAA의 비중이 서서히 높아지고 있는 추세입니다.  다만 디비젼 1이 대세죠.  그래도 디비젼 3에서 올해 피츠버그에 1라운드에 지명된 선수도 있습니다.

이런면에서 본다면 알렉스 킴 같은 선수는 대단한 선수죠.  디비젼 1 콜로라도 대학에서 뛰었으니 이미 그때부터 프로급 선수라고 봐야겠고 아시아 리그에서도 좋은 성적을 낸 선수이기도 하니까요.  아마 동양인이고 또 어떤 연유에서 못간것 뿐이지 기량은 프로급이라는 뜻입니다.  동양인으로서 대단한거죠.  그런면에서 성우제 선수도 NCAA로 갔었다면 참 좋은 기회였을 것인데.....  지금도 디비젼 3에서 뛰는 한국계 골리는 있습니다.  

그리고 여자의 경우 하키를 아주 월등하게 잘하지는 못해도 남자보다는 훨씬 더 유리하게 갈 기회는 주어집니다.  다만 학교에 따라 다르겠지요.  그리고 미국 여자 대표들은 거의 전부 대학교 선수였거나 현재 대학 선수이거나 둘중 하나 입니다.

그리고 전반적으로 캐나다에서 OHL등으로 못가는 경우 NCAA쪽으로 많은 노력을 하지만 캐나다인들에게는 성적이 가장 걸림돌이 되고 있습니다.  게다가 USHL 때문에 캐나다 선수들의 NCAA의 문이 날로 좁아지고 있는것도 현실입니다.

아래 글을 읽다 보니 좀 너무 과장된 부분이 있어서 그냥 올려봅니다.  아랫 글에서 좀 더 솔직하고 있는 그대로의 사실을 얘기해 주었으면 했는데......  마치 캐나다에서 하키를 하면 미국대학에 전부 가는 것처럼 얘기 하는 것은 좀 현실과 동떨어진 얘기입니다.  미국에서도 미국 대학에 하키로 못가서 안달인 현실에......  문제는 타 인기 종목에 비해 하키 팀을 갖고 있는 대학들의 숫자가 상대적으로 절대적으로 적기 때문에 하키로 대학을 가는 것은 참 힘든 일 줄 하나입니다.  그리고 하키 실력 못지 않게 성적도 중요합니다.

매년 대학들은 선수들을 새롭게 많이 뽑습니다.  시즌을 거쳐오다 보면 성적 미달 때문에 또는 프로로 전향을 하거나 (아주 좋은 케이스이나 몇몇 안되는) 아니면 정말 일신상의 이유로 그만두는 하키선수들이 많습니다.  하다보니 잘하는 선수들도 많고 또 힘들고 하니 포기하는것이죠. 포기 한다고 입학을 취소하는 것은 아니니까요.  그래서 공백이 생기면 또 뽑아오고 합니다.  

우리나라에서 지원을 하자면......  선수들 자신들이 알려져야 하는 기회를 잡아야 하기  때문에 더더욱 넘기 어려운 벽이죠.  아마 비행기 값 엄청 내야 할지 모르는 상황입니다.  NCAA, 어느 종목에서든 매력적이지만 결코 만만치 않은 무대입니다.
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    하키넛 2011.08.15 04:21
    잘 읽었습니다. 알렉스김이 대학 1학년 당시Miami Univ.시절) 4학년 선수들과 함께 제 1 라인에서 맹활약을 하여 모든 사람들이 NHL 로 갈 것이라고 의심치 않았는데 불행하게도 그렇게 길이 열리지 않았던 점이 안타까웠다 하더군요. 지금도 NHL San Jose 의 수비수인 Dan Boyle 선수와 같은 라인에서 뛰었는데 TV 중계를 볼 때마다 아쉬워 하는군요.
    어쨌던 대학 3학년 때 Colorado College 로 전학하여 대학 졸업을 하고 마이너 리그로 프로 생활을 시작했지요. 나이 25세까지 NHL을 포기하지 않았지만 여건이 허락을 안헀다죠.
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    hockey usa 2011.08.15 09:14
    그 여건이라는게 참 묘한 것입니다. 여건 안에는 인종도 있고 많은 정치적인 부분들이 포함되어 있죠. 하키만 잘한다고 전부 프로가 되는것이 아니라 진정 하늘이 내려야 된다고 항상 생각되어 집니다.
    이곳에 싸우는 것이 주 전문인 선수가 있는데... 진짜 스킬은 별로인데 싸우는 것은 일품이었다 하네요. NHL13년 베테랑이 되었고 아들을 이번에 OHL 로 보내더군요. 아들도 그렇게 잘하는 것은 아닌데도 그 줄이라는게 참.....
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    matroos 2011.08.16 09:36
    줄이라는건 전세계가 다 똑같군요...
  • ?
    Crosby 2011.08.16 17:42
    커넥션이 정말 중요하다고 합니다....
  • ?
    cool man 2011.08.16 21:41
    항상 좋은정보 와 하키의 상식에 대하여 현실감이 더하여져 올라오는 님의글 감사합니다.
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    김지민 2011.08.16 22:56
    미국 학원하키에 대한 좋은 정보 감사합니다.
    공부와 하키를 병행하기를 원하는 사람들에게 참 좋은 정보입니다.
    현지 생활에서 묻어나오는 세세한 문제점까지....
    한국 대학이나 중고교에 진학 할려면 어떻게 하는지 그리고 국내에서 수업과 하키가 어떻게 진행되는지도 좀 알려 주셧으면 합니다.
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    골리 Gerry 2011.08.16 23:13
    앗, 알렉스김 아버님 안녕하셨어요~ ^^
    건강은 좋아지고 계시죠 ? ^^
  • ?
    hockey usa 2011.08.17 03:21
    한국에서는 겉으로는 공부를 한다고 하고 간혹 형식적으로나마 하는 학교도 있지요..... 하지만 학원하키를 하는 이상 공부는 꿈도 못 꿉니다. 그리고 대학을 가도 체육학과 밖에 못가고 그나마 아주 잘하는 선수만 체육교육학과를 가서 교사 자격증이 주어집니다.
    이해찬, 당시 교육부 장관이 모든 운동선수둘은 운동밖에 모르니까 체육과로만 가야한다고 종지부를 찍었죠...... 그 바람에 아마 공부하는 운동선수들도 기로에 있었을 거라 생가됩니다.
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    짝배골리 2011.08.17 17:29
    프로는 하늘이 내려야 한다는 글... 참으로 공감 합니다. 프로도 실력의 차이와 개개인의 장점도 월등 하게 있지만 어떤 연이 되어야 프로가 되는 경우도 볼 수 있으니까요. 이런 경우는 지도자도 마찬가지 아닐까 합니다.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.18 19:38
    oh...i looked at Nobles website. They sent 2 players to NCAA this year, 4 last year, and 11 since 2005. This is impressive, and nobles has a great program. However, I think you ust acknowledge the Toronto Aeros (at least at this point in time) are better (11 NCAA players this year alone, and 61 since 2006)
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    hockey usa 2011.08.18 23:10
    Better? by what means? As you know Canadian players do have academic issues. If that is not the case, NCAA hockey should be dominated by Canadians. Unfortunately, academics pull back a lot of Canadian players away from top NCAA schools.
    You also have to understand that Nobles is just one school out of 65 schools. It only has about 200 girls and not all play hockey. Aeros is a select team from thousands of hockey players in Canada. By that means, I think Canadian hockey may be better, but not academics. You should understand that Koreans really care about academics. How many people would send their kids to no name colleges like St. Lawrence or Quinnipiac from Korea????? Can you guarantee that you can send players to Ivy league schools? If not, what you are claimining is just a marketing gimmick.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.18 23:27
    The point of my article is to try to make a women's ice hockey team that can represent Korea proudly at the 2018 olympics. However, for one to play sports in Korea, and go to university in Korea, one can only study physical education. And that poses a problem because Korean parents are concerned about their children's future after hockey, and a physical education degree even from a SKY university isn't too valuable.

    I believe if we can make a girl's hockey team in Korea, have them play together everyday, and train together in Canada or the US, they can become an excellent team that will represent Korea proudly and can win at least a bronze medal in 2018. In addition to this, I believe they can also get a solid education, and even have it financed. I think this would be a great thing for these girls and for Korea.

    I have lived in Korea for 5 years now, and Korea has been so great to me. And now I want to give back to this incredible country. Can you understand my intentions and thought?
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.19 00:11
    As per education. The Korea Junior Nationals will attend a special private school just for them. I have co-ordinated it with the Ontario Ministry of Education and Alternative Scarborough Education (ASE). So they will have teachers that will help them individually, as well as the teachers at ASE that are great and will help individually as well (I attended there, so I know how great and special these teachers truly are).

    This way, I am sure that they will get a great education that will ensure they can enter a good university even without hockey.

    As for your comment about Canadian education in general. Right now there are 63 Canadians on ivy league women's hockey rosters, 64 Americans. Seeing that these 2 countries are neck-and-neck at the international level, it seems that education isn't holding any Canadians back.

    In the finish, I just want to do well for Korea. Can't you get on board and encourage and support Korea?
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    hockey usa 2011.08.19 22:44
    Hey, whatever you say.... Canadian education will never be equal to the one that of New England Prep School. I also want to let you know that there are differences in Canadians and other nationals. You better make sure of that. I will only help you if and when you say the truth and your program is well worth it. As far as what you are saying is something that is very far from the reality.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.20 00:51
    New England prep schools are fantastic. Canada has excellent prep schools too (like upper canada college). If you want to say New England is better, they may very well be. However, I am not from New England, and I'm not American, so I can't move there and move 20 Korean olympic hopefuls with me. Also, for these young Korean girls to all move together to a New England prep school would take a lot of co-ordination. If someone were willing to do that, I would support them and wish them all well. But I can't do that, and no one else is willing to.

    Right now, the Korean National women's hockey team just simply can not compete at the international level. With Korea holding the 2018 Olympics, and the international women's ice hockey field being weak, this is a chance for Korea to field a team that can win a medal.

    And on top of that these girls can get a good education too. I just want to help. If there is a flaw to my idea, and you know a better idea, I'm all ears. I'm trying to do my best. What is wrong with my idea. Why can't it work?
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.20 01:01
    About other nationals. I don't believe they are not prejudiced against. In fact, there is a Czech girl and a Ukrainian girl on the Brown woman's ice hockey team. When I played NCAA, we had 2 Swedish players, and a Ukrainian player. In fact, I tend to believe that because Koreans are of a visual minority, they might actually receive some preferential treatment.

    At the end of the day, I just want to do something good. Please let me know, where is my plan good? and how can I make it better?

    Together as a united people, I think we can do it!
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    hockey usa 2011.08.21 05:18
    I know about the Korean women's national team. It will be better to bring instructors to Korea for training and send them out to tournaments overseas. This will be cheaper than your way. Also, this is something done by the hockey association. As far as individual is concerned, I advise them to go to New England prep for education and hockey. Going to Canada for hockey is good, but not for education. Schools that my kids attend have a few Canadian hockey players wishing to go to US colleges for hockey. They tell me that education at these schools are far better than what is offered in Canada. Also, you should notice at least 5 players go to NHL each year from New England Prep. You should go watch some girl's prep games in Boston. I was surprised myself.
    Korean National teams have their challenges that cannot be resolved by you or me. It is something that needs to be dealt with by the organization at national level.....

    I can only help individuals. Not the whole team.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.21 07:19
    I get this feeling you and I are at somewhat of an impasse. I am in the process of making the Korea Junior Nationals the official girl's Junior Nation team of Korea with the Korea Hockey Association. Myself and co-coach Kim Hong-Il believe in this team, and we believe we can make a solid competitive team for the 2018 Olympic Games to win a medal.

    I guess we have to agree to disagree that 1) 20 young Korean girls individuals going to New England separately would be better than them going to Canada together.
    2) The special private school I have created in Canada for these special girls will not be good compared to a Korean education (because I have specifically created it especially for them).

    I realize you said that you can not help the whole team, only an individual. I'm sure whatever girls you have recruited will be great in the situation you created for them, and I truly wish her all the best. maybe if you're plan works out, and my plan does as well, I hope your girl or girls can play with the ones I have developed and win an Olympic medal together.

    Because at the end of the day. I'm not in a competition with you. I want your girl or girls to do well, and I want mine to succeed too. And hopefully with us both working hard, despite our different paths, we produce a Korean team you and I can cheer in the stands together and feel proud we worked so hard to make this dream a reality!



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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.21 07:30
    Oh, and about just keeping these girls in Korea, with a public Korean education...I truly think that shipping them off overseas every once in a while simply isn't enough. Canada and the US are so far from Korea, so every trip is expensive. And playing against this competition just every once in a while (what 2 or 3 trips to America per year?) simply doesn't compare to living in Canada, playing with and against top Canadian girls, and tournaments in Canada and the US.

    And just another comment about education...It's not a New England education I'm trying to top. It's a Korean public education. I'm trying to give these girls a better education than what they have now in Korea. I'm sure had I been from New England, I'd be bringing the Korean National team there. However I'm not. And as you said, you are not willing to bring a national team there...so I truly believe, and I hope you can agree, at this point in time, unless someone is willing to do better, my team is the best we got. So unless someone steps up to the plate and makes a better team, mine is the best we got. So here's a challenge to you or anyone else. Make a better team than me. if you don't, get behind us, cheer for us, support us, and show your pride in Korea. Because, with or without your cheering, we're committed to bringing home a medal!!!
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    hockey usa 2011.08.21 18:54
    I personally think you are full of it. First of all, Korean public education is better than Canadian education, especially with the Hak Won system. You teach here and see a lot of bright people. You should know better that education is more competitive here than any public education in Canada, period. Who are you trying to kid???? Stop bashing Korea for what it is.
    Also, I am never in competition with you since I am not even in that business, yet. Don't make a scene like you know everything. Please, please.
    By the way, national team selection is made by the association. You or that Kim guy does not have the ultimate authority to make those selections. Guess what, there are Korean girls already in AAA hockey system in the US and Canada. If the association politically maneuvers to have some of these girls to obtain dual citizenship, some of your 20 girls will never be on the team. In fact, there is a girl playing Div 3 at Williams already. She is pretty good. I have seen her play.
    You do not have the answers. You have dreams. You sound like you are giving them the best education in Canada. Come on.... Who are you trying to kid? People in this sight is way smarter than you think. They also know a lot about education and hockey.
    Keeping 20 girls on one team and get beat more than half the time is not a great idea to improve. You need to divide those 20 girls to 10 different teams in Canada or US to have them experience different training and all. They can then bring their experiences together in different levels of coaching and hockey. Having those 20 train and play together is not the best idea.
    I can make a better team than you. You have to understand that these girls need fundamentals before moving onto other things. There were some girls with lots of potential who moved onto other things...... You should learn a whole lot more about Korea before you do anything.
    It is not about going to Canada. It is about how efficient one trains and the type of philosophy one has. Going to Canada is not always an answer!!!!!!!
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.21 19:39
    I think you are misunderstanding me. I love Korea, and would NEVER bash it.

    That Kim guy?? Sounds quite derogatory to say about one of the best Korean ice hockey players ever! Why would you speak like that about him? He played pro for the Halla for 8 years, and 6 on the Korean national team...where is your pride? Why don't you follow your national team? Why don't you show respect?

    If something isn't done with the Korean national woman's team, they won't even be able to ice a team, like they didn't for the 2010 olympics. Also, it's not only how you train that makes you good. It's playing against top level competition. You need these games. Practice alone can not make you a champion. You are wrong.

    I have specifically designed a special private school that will provide these girls with a superb education, that will provide them a top education, so that even without hockey, they will go to a good university.

    You don't even know the school I've designed. However, instead of asking questions and trying to make things good, you seem like the type of person that just likes to dump on things.

    You say Korea's best chance at winning a medal at the 2018 Olympics is to politcally maneuver and manipulate passports instead of developing their own team??? Terrible!

    Second, divide these girls up in a foreign country, when many don't know the language or cultiure, and don't have any friends, is the best way? No WAY!

    can you imagine you being a 14 year old girl. Leaving your friends and family to a foreign country you don't speak the language or know the culture, alone? One, I don't think the Korean Ice Hockey Association would pay for that. Two, maybe the parents don't have the money for that. Three, I don't know many girls that age here in Korea that would want to do that.

    Kim Hong-Il and myself together with the support of the Korean Ice Hockey Association can create an excellent education for these girls in Canada. They will be with 19 other girls their own age. And they will be paired with members of our sister team, The Toronto Aeros. The girls we have spoke to and their parents like this idea. Honestly, you are the first nay-sayer I've met. And somehow I'm trying to impress upon you, that this idea is good. Your alternative suggestions, albeit well intentions, just don't seem practical. Are you willing to work to make your idea work? Will you do it? or are you just a guy that likes to bash others?

    Come on. Turn that attitude around. Be optiimistic. Get on board. Be a Korean. Support our girls. Support Korea!
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.21 20:01
    Now, after re-reading your last post you raise a good point, which i have addressed. However, I will rehash it now, to refresh your memory, and write it in more detail for your understanding.

    The plan has 5 stages. 1-we play and practice in Korea daily for at least 6 months. This time we will specifically address the fundamentals. 2-We will go to Canada together, and train, again daily, another year together, again, working primarily on fundamentals, and to a lesser degree team tactics. We will also practice together with the Toronto Aeros, and play exhibition games against low-level house league teams. 3-The following year (after about 2 years of daily practice and exhibition games here and there) we will then work on more advanced team strategies and skills, starting to play better callibre opponents and tournaments. 4-When it seems we're ready, we will then play at the top level, showcasing our players to university scouts. 5-Each girl will then go her own way at the university they were recruited to. There they will get different training and experiences to round them out as hockey players-Then off to the Olympics!

    Actually the one weak point of my plan, which to no surprise you didn't mention, is that my Olympic team will be rather young, consisting predominantly on NCAA players. However, that's the best idea I can come up with because of the limited time between now and 2018, to tell you the truth, I think despite our youth, we still should get at least the bronze. However, by 2022, I really really think we'll have a world-class competitive team to be reckoned with!!!
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 06:57
    I personally think your idea needs a lot of hope. After being in the club hockey for three years, I took my kids to the US. I used hockey as a tool to get into very good academic/hockey schools.
    I have played against the women's hockey team in Korea before and I have seen them train. Like you said, the girls you mentioned are too young to begin with. Most of the girls going on to college start off playing against boys until they are about Bantam. Those girls are very good competing against boys.
    Your idea may work and you may make money doing that by 2022. For 2018, questionable!!!! You know as well as I do it is not on ice training only. It is also off ice training and diet and all. You went to Wayne State to play hockey there but did not finish there for a reason. If you have read a book by Augimori guy, that will give you some ideas. You make it sound like going to NCAA is an easy process. For foreign players holding non US passports, it is very very difficult to go to NCAA rout unless you are super good standout over and above US and Canadian players.
    If you look at the bio of US and Canadian women's players, you will immediately realize what they do. There are women playing on CWHL and all. Of the 20, how many would be able to do that in 7 years? I already know some Korean nationals playing AAA hockey in Northern US at a high level. I guarantee you they are more likely to get to the selection.
    good luck...... By the way, you need to develop a goalie first. When building a team, one builds a team from the back, right? We can score so many goals, but being scored on more is a losing ticket.
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 06:59
    By the way, only reason I started the conversation is because of your written material on Harvard below. Do not trick these people for your own gain. getting 20 girls into NCAA at the same age is not as easy as you think
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.22 07:33
    Wow!!! I hate to sound condescending, and I'm afraid I might be...And honestly it is not my intention...but I'm so happy to come home and see your response. It is not so, what's the word, dumping?? Sorry, I don't want to agitate you. But your response is so respectful and thoughtful, and I'm happy to read it.

    I actually think i agree 100% with what you said!!!! I honestly thought we could never get to that point, and I was ready to give up this thread. But now you inspired me. Thank you.

    You are 100% right. My plan is full of my hopes and dreams. I'm doing my best, and so far, this is the best pan I have been able to come up with. It is definitely not perfect, nor full-proof. However, to what Korea has now, I believe my idea is better than what is going on now. You are right again, it will be hard. These girls will have to give it their all, as will I. And I believe in them. As you are Korean, I think, you know the work ethic Koreans have, and their academic aptitude. Therefore, I am developing a program that is superior to just 그냥 Canadian education, so that they will excel far passed what would be possible in a Canadian public school setting.

    And about money, I must be honest,, I want to be able to make a living doing this, and making a Korean dream come true. However, please don't misinterpret this as a money-making scheme. Truly, hockey is my passion, and always has been. I have fallen in love with Korea in the 5 years I've been here. I could make more money elsewhere, but I wouldn't be as happy. And I couldn't be around hockey.

    Thank you for your response, and I hope in the future our interactions can be this amicable. I'm sorry if I made it sound like making it to the Ivy League and winning a medal would be a walk in the park. I guess I wrote it that way in an attempt to solicit more girls and their parents to be interested and ask more questions to get them involved.

    And also, to my surprise, you touched upon my other problem I was hoping would somehow work itself out. But as of yet, I don't have any goalies. I desperately need that. As you wrote, it's an important position. I've thought about it, and as of now, I've been kinda hoping there's some good Korean goalie I will find. If i don't....hmmmm...I got some more thinking to do.

    I wrote a lot here because I'm happy. Thank you for coming around a bit. Hopefully with my team, Korea will be better off. I always say to my friends, I think we will win the bronze, but 2018, home ice, in Korea, only 1 game, maybe we got a shot at a better medal. I hope.
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 07:53
    What would be the cost of education and hockey? How would these kids go there? Under which visa?
    You are also underestimating the power of Korean hockey association. They could mobilize like 2002 World cup and nullify what you are trying.
    If the cost is over $35000 per year, it is better to go to a prep school.
    To go to a public school in Canada, one should pay around $16000 and hockey cost as you have is should cost another $15000 plus from my own experiences.
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 07:56
    This is precisely why I think what you are doing is for your own good.
    Also, I have developed a goalie and a player in these areas. There is decent goalie here in Korea now. There are actually two. They will be too old to play in 2018 since they will be in their 30's. 30's for women athlete is very old in general.
    Anyway, I do agree that women team should have a better chance, but I do not agree on your method since yours is not very realistic. You just need a two good lines and a decent third line to make it work. You do not need twenty girls at the same age.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.22 10:06
    Costs are not finalized yet, but my estimate would put it at about $30,000. This figure is an estimate at this point, as the move to Toronto is about a year away. Also players will be on a study permit for 1 year intervals.

    Also, as I said before I am working with the Korean Hockey Association. Others are doing the National team, I am only going to be doing the Junior National team. If there are members of the National team that are better than some of my girls, great. I just want Korea to ice the best team possible, no matter what path it takes them to get there.

    Again about prep school. It seems you like them a lot. And don't think I'm slagging them. They are fantastic. However, like I said, I'm not American, it is impossible for me to co-ordinate that. If you or someone else can, I hope you do, and that girl joins our Olympic team in 2018.

    I am glad you see that adding my team and my vision will make Korea a better hockey country. You may be right though...Maybe we can't get the bronze through practicing and studying daily in Canada from now until 2018,,,Maybe none will get scholarships...I can't predict the future.

    However, I truly believe with all that I am, if we do this, WE WILL WIN AN OLYMPIC MEDAL IN KOREA!!!! These girls WILL get NCAA scholarships. I guess you and I will just have to do our best to try to make this reality.

    I guess at the end of this all, you or I will get to say "I told you so!" However, anyone can play this game by being negative and doing nothing. I choose to play this game being positive and doing something. Let's see who'll win! I'll keep you posted on all the latest developments as they happen
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 22:07
    $30,000 is not an easy money. It is only estimate which means there will be about 30% difference. I know that from my experience.
    I do not do " I told you so". I just know more about this since I have gone through this my self with my own kids. There are better way. I am not about to tell you that. Good luck. I am only 50/50 about your way. Not sold at all.
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    hockey usa 2011.08.22 22:10
    By the way, one who was a pro hockey player does not mean he is good at teaching. Even Gretzky was a horrible coach!!!! You do not have to be a pro hockey player to be a good coach. I do not believe one is a good coach until I see that one is. They have to prove to me. Like I said, I do not recommend you to be a trainer to anyone until I see you that you are. Being a Div 1 player does not mean he is a good coach. I have had mixed review about your Monday sessions.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.23 01:26
    You've seen my sessions!!! Nice! I'm happy that I got you to 50/50. All I want to say, is I'll do my best. I've been teaching English in Korea for over 5 years now, and I've been running hockey schools since I was a teenager. Some graduates include Patrick O'Sullivan, Brent Burns, Phil Oreskovic(all NHL guys) and a bunch of minor league guys. Also I realize that the woman's game is a lot different. So only the future can tell. I know I'll have to learn and improve too. Hopefully, we can do it. If not, I still think I can feel good knowing I helped Korea. Because Korea's been an awesome place for me. The people have been so kind, generous, and hospitable to me.

    Next step I'll keep you posted on is my review with the Korean Hockey Association. I'll keep you posted on the results of that. Take care. It was fun, sometimes, debating with you. I think it was Mills that said something like, "the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."
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    hockey usa 2011.08.23 05:00
    Good luck. I just think there are better people than you and better way than yours out there. I do not know everything about the process, I just want to remind you that you do not know everything either. I am just wondering who would pay the bills at $30000 plus fees......
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.23 15:18
    I appreciate your confidence, spirit, and support for Korea. I hope those other people that are better than me step up and apply their better abilities...Together we can make an Olympic medal winning team! And some schollies!

    About who pays that money...I was just as shocked as maybe you are now, but so so many Koreans. Just last year my girlfriend spent $20,000 for 6 months in a live abroad program in Canada. No hockey, no school, just living with a family. And Koreans do it all the time. English is so important here in Korea. And also, as I wrote in the previous post, "I know I'll have to learn and improve too."
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    ga 2011.08.26 04:42
    my girlfriend spent $20,000 for 6 months
    흐음.. 캐네디언 달러겠죠? .. 쩝
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    hockey usa 2011.08.26 15:57
    외국 한번 안살아보고 영어 잘하는 한국인들이 많다는 것을 이친구는 모르는 듯 합니다. 그리고 캐나다 달러 미국 달러보다 더 많이 줘야 살수 있습니다. 장난 아니죠.
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    이태민 2011.08.28 16:48
    캐나다나 미국에서 매일 합숙하고 운동하면 적어도 동메달은 딸 수 있을거라는....어떻게 그런 결과를 쉽게 장담하는지 궁금하네여...많은 사람들이 여자가 가능성 많다고 하는데 개인적인 생각으론 더 힘들고 자동출전권이 없는 지금상황에선 올림픽 출전도 쉬운게 아니라고 생각이 드네요 ...
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.29 14:41
    미안합니다만 나는 한국말을 조금밖에 못해요. 그런데 한국여자들은 캐나다에서 매일 하키하고 수팅연습하면 그들은 아주65 좋든 선수 될거에요. 그리고 6년 동안하면 아마도 오림픽메달 딸 수 있어요.
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    Crosby 2011.08.29 20:25
    그럼 현재 여자국가대표는 뭔가요?? 이들과 나중에 국가대표 선발 tryout 같이 하는건가요??
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    hockey usa 2011.08.30 09:09
    뭐 어떤 근거로 이친구가 이렇게 주장하는지 모르지만.... 꿈은 야무진듯 합니다. 하지만 캐나다 교육이 한국보다 낳다고 한것은 좀 어불성설인듯...... 한국 학원들의 힘을 잘 모르는 듯합니다.
    그리고 하키 선수들의 대부분은 정말 학업에 어려움을 겪고 있는게 캐나다나 미국의 현실입니다. 그래서 하키는 되도 대학진학을 못하는 경우가 허다합니다.
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.30 20:36
    Crosby - 지금 코리아 내셔널팀선수들은 2017에 20명중에 제일 잘하는 선수 있으면 그들은 올림픽팀선수 될수 있을거에요. 그런데 주니어 내셔널선수들도 20명중에 제일 잘하는 선수 있으면 그들은 올림픽에 갈거에요. (최고의 20명선수들이 올림픽에 나갈거예요.)

    hockey usa: 너의생각을 많이 들었어요. 그런데 한국사람들은 자주 유학해요. 왜? 좋으니까?
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    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.30 20:46
    and hockey usa...i don't know why we always seem at odds. it's quite strange. however once again i must disagree with you that hockey players have a difficult time studying. while that might be the case for some, it is not the case for others. in fact the ivy league has a hockey team. these players have been good students and hockey players through high school, so they continue doing this through university.

    Also i hear your thoughts about the greatness of the korean education system and hagwon system. i like it too. however, studying abroad also offers many koreans a great chance to be immersed in an english society. this should improve their english more than a mere hagwon. and knowing english fluently is of great importance in korea.

    while some might make the mistake and waste their money on a terrible study abroad program. i can guarantee you the one that i'm creating will be great! i have a lot of great partners, and we will not sell any child short. i'm committed to my players. i am there to get them into the best university they have the capacity to attend, even without hockey. to me, education should be the first priority. hockey is second. getting a scholarship, and attending the olympics are great things. however, i would never do that at the expense of one's education!
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    hockey usa 2011.08.30 23:32
    한국인이 자주 유학을 하는 이유는 단순히 좋아서가 아닙니다. 목적에 의해서 상황에 의해서 주변의 권유 등등 외국인들은 이해 못하는 부분들이 상당히 있습니다. 너무 단순히 좋다고 하는 이유를 얘기하는 주니어 내쇼날님은 정말 몰라도 너무 모릅니다.
    The reason why we are at odd is the fact that you are doing this mainly for your own gain. How can you guarantee a program will be great? You are so naive.
    Also, I did not say hockey players have difficult time studying. Already your educational background is telling me that you do not know how to read!!!!! I said most hockey players do not have the grades to go to NCAA schools. About 80% of hockey players in the US and Canada may have adequate hockey skills but sub par academics to knock on the NCAA's door.
    Wayne State, by the way, is not a good academic school at all by all means. Why don't you look at the rankings.
    You also should realize that there are a lot of failures produced by studying abroad as well. One must be careful when sending a child away. (유학에 실패한 사례도 많기 때문에 유학을 보낸다는 자체에 좀 더 조심스러워야 한다). You only see this from one angle.
    As a parent, I will never send my child to Canada for education, unless it is McGill University in Montreal, QC. If my objective is hockey, I may send my child. However, Canadians are not very generous when it comes to elite hockey. My sons experienced discrimination from Canadian hockey including racism. Discrimination including racism among Canadian hockey is prevalent throughout Canada, more so than the US. I am speaking from my experience. Why do you think there is not that many Asian hockey players in Canadian junior hockey??????
    I just want you to be honest about the fact that you are trying to make your personal gain from this. 본인의 이익을 위해 이런 주장을 한다는 것에 좀더 솔직해 졌으면 합니다.
    무슨 말을 하던, 캐나다의 엘리트 하키가 보여줬던 타국민과 타인종에 대한 차별은 상당하다는 것은 현실이고 사실입니다.
  • ?
    hockey usa 2011.08.30 23:34
    오히려 차별은 미국보다 훨씬 더 심하다는 것을 경험한 저로서 주니어 내쇼날 팀님은 좀더 솔직해 지셨으면 합니다. 비용도 만만치 않구요. 교육을 원한다면 미국이나 영국 프랑스가 캐나다 보다는 훨 낳지 않나 싶네요.
  • ?
    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.31 00:28
    What makes you believe that my sole motivation is personal gain?

    Also, throughout most of your posts your tone is quite aggressive. I wonder why you are hostile with me?

    Here's my idea...yet again. For Korea to develop a world class woman's hockey team to win a medal in the 2018 Olympic Games.

    Sure it would be a personal gain for me to see this happen, however it would also be a gain for all Koreans. Why are you angry with that? Maybe you're not Korean...Maybe you are American.

    Second, I am developing a private school with top notch amazing teachers to help these girls one-on-one, as well as small class sizes. That is better than any other educational option a Korean girl has. It is not a public school! Some of these girls can not speak English!

    Where's my gain? Sure I will feel proud that I helped these girls. However, these girls will move on with an excellent education. Why are you angry with that? Because it's in Canada? If I created this same school in the US, would that make you happy as an American?

    Right now Korea couldn't even send a team to the Vancouver Olympics! Should I do nothing to help improve it?

    I am creating the Junior National team to do something good for a country I love. And honestly Koreans are not pessimistic angry people like your tone indicates. Koreans are kind, wonderful, hardworking people. You watch! Now that the Olympics are in Korea, the Korean people will work hard, and be optimistic, and everybody in Korea will be cheering with pride when we win the bronze or better, except you in your pessimistic ways. You'll be complaining about how the US lost to Canada

  • ?
    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.31 00:33
    I can guarantee my school will be great because I'll be working with great people. The teachers at ASE are the best! The private teachers I hire will also be the best. The Toronto Aeros (our sister team, is the BEST!) (sorry Nobles).

    When you work with the best, and you work hard with great student-athletes, you become the best.

    That is why I can guarantee it.
  • ?
    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.31 00:35
    As for me not being able to read. You wrote in Korean. I think I'm doing pretty good for a guy who never went to any Korean school. I just picked up a book from the bookstore and I read it on the subway.
  • ?
    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.31 00:40
    Also I don't care about 80% of hockey players, from whatever unquoted source you like dropping numbers with. I only care about my girls, and my team. And with one-on-one attention, NO girl will be allowed to slump on their grades. I PERSONALLY WILL NOT STAND FOR POOR GRADES! If it happens, she will have no free time, only studying with the tutor. If still no improvement, I'll send the girl home! as i said, "School first, Hockey second!"
  • ?
    주니어네셔널스하키팀 2011.08.31 00:45
    As for racism...please. Toronto is such a multi-cultural city. There are more Asians in Toronto than Caucasians. There are many Asian hockey players, and I played along with many of them.

    As for your personal experience with racism in Canada. First, I bet you've never even been there. And second, you probably walk around talking with that know-it-all pessimistic aggressive tone in your voice when you talk to people, and they respond negatively to you do, like I am now. However, you rationalize it, "They're racist!" not "I'm being a jerk"
  • ?
    hockey usa 2011.08.31 06:20
    I am criticizing you for what you are. I do not think you are a qualified educator. You do not know what education is from your back ground. If you really believe in helping people, you need to look at what education really is.
    By the way, I spent at least three to five weeks in Canada for at least five years for camps with my sons. My son was told to "go back to where he came from" by Canadians. When it comes to hockey, Canadians are racist by far compared to the Americans. I wrote to Jon Elkin in Toronto never to invite us again for being such a racist camp.
    I experienced that again in Montreal this May. I have been to Canada enough. Canadian Hockey is a Racist hockey by far. You get it straight. You are such an idiot not even knowing what it really is.....
    캐나다는 인종차별적인 하키 구조를 갖고 있습니다. That is my experience with elite Canadian hockey!!!!!!!!!!!! You are sooooooo naive.
    Plus your ecudational institution will never be able to equal that of the US. You will fail!!!!!!
  • ?
    호이짜호이 2011.08.31 11:46
    뭐 내용을 요약하면 서로 바라보는 시각차네요.
    부정적인 시각과 긍정적인 시각
    서로의 답은 없는것 같습니다.

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